Joan Baez On Her New Doc, Activism And More

Some people are fortunate to be a part of history. And then there are those few who achieve greatness and actually make history. In the case of folk icon Joan Baez, she has achieved both. Her long and storied music career alone would make her part of history. She did, of course, close the first day of Woodstock, the one that actually mattered in 1969.

But where Baez truly created history is her incredible career as an activist. In 1963, she sang “We Shall Overcome” at the March on Washington next to Dr. Martin Luther King. At the request of Dr. King she participated in the 1965 march from Selma to Montgomery. Her list of accomplishments goes on and on.

Her contributions to history are being celebrated in a superb new documentary, Joan Baez I Am a Noise. It is essential watching for fans of either music or activism or both. Sage Bava and I had the incredible honor of sitting down with Baez on a recent Zoom to discuss the film, finding her voice as an activist, Lana Del Ray and much more.

Steve Baltin: I just did an interview with Carlos Santana, who I’m sure you’ve known for many years, about his documentary. I loved what you said in the beginning of the film about the truth and how a lot of times you don’t really remember what that is. But what’s very fascinating is when you do a project like this, it jogs the memory. There are things that come up that you hadn’t thought about in a very long time. So what were one or two of the things that maybe most surprised you in looking back at this?

Joan Baez: It’s not stuff that I forget. It’s stuff I didn’t know. That’s the most surprising, interesting and what I learned from. For instance, my sisters, I didn’t know their feelings ’cause they couldn’t tell me. I had hints but to hear them, even Pauline sitting next to me and talking, something opened her up. But she was able to say that with a third party asking. So, yeah. a lot of it was just revelatory for me. And of course, stuff that I’d forgotten. I’ve laughed a lot at that because there’s a lot of spontaneous stuff in there that’s making fun of me and I love that. And I’m doing the same thing myself part of the time [chuckle],.

Baltin: Are there things now that when you look back on it that were sort of obvious? But of course, at the height of fame, and to me fame is the worst drug there is. It’s so overwhelming. So for you, as you looked at this, were there things now that you see, but you were too in the midst of it to see them?

Baez: Both.I was such a fanatic about not wanting to be commercial, that I did stuff that I was as obnoxious as if I’d been, for instance, on the stage or a TV show or something, I’d say, “No flowers, no this, no that.” And one of the directors said, “Gosh. She’s impossible.” ‘Cause they wanted to put flowers and do this and bring people in, have dancers or whatever. And I said, “Nothing.” And that was difficult for them. At the same time I was 18, 19 years old and Mimi in the film says, well, “She just kind of goes to your head or something.” When she saw me on the cover of a Time magazine. So my behavior certainly has to have gone a little bit fluky during that time. And so it really is both is me trying desperately to stay on a clean track. And on the other hand, with all that adulation and stuff around me, it was probably impossible.

Baltin: Do you miss the adulation and adoration? Because as someone who’s interviewed thousands of rock stars, when I watch someone do a reunion tour or whatever, it’s not money. It’s the ego. It’s the fact that they miss being revered by 50,000-60,000 people.

Baez: Absolutely not. I haven’t had a moment where I’ve thought, “Oh, damn. I wish I were walking back on that stage.” Not a moment. The only thing I miss is to be able to spontaneously join something, even if it’s a gospel choir, and have my voice be reliable, I miss that. But as far as the whole touring, I talked to Linda Ronstadt a number of years ago, and she had quit touring and she asked me when I was going to quit touring. I said, “Oh. My bus family and my this and that.” And she said, “Oh, yeah. I know the camaraderie and everything but it is too exhausting.” And she was so happy that she’d quit. And I thought, “Oh. That’s not going to happen to me.” I didn’t know what hard work it was till I looked back. While it was going on, I didn’t know.

Baltin: I reviewed Joni [Mitchell’s] show at the Gorge. She is lucky to be alive. Everybody acknowledges that. When you see the fact that she’s been able to come back and do these shows like in Newport all those years later does it inspire you in a way? ‘Cause the last time I saw you at Disney Hall where you were kind enough to invite us backstage was mind blowing. It was so brilliant.

Baez: Nope. When I did a thing with Bob Weir and Sammy Hagar, I thought, “Oh. Well, I’ll try this ’cause I just wanted to see Taj [Mahal].” I hadn’t seen Taj in years. I thought, “Well, this could be fun.” So I dragged the guitar down off the wall where it’s been hanging since I quit touring. “So, well, let’s see what I can do with my spaghetti fingers.” And I had a good time. And as long as I give up my desire to make the notes I can’t make anymore, it’s been fun. I haven’t done much. I sang at a memorial and I sang at Sammy’s thing. And I might be able to pop up and do something, but it does not make me want to go back on tour [chuckle].

Sage Bava: I love that one of the first words that you used to describe your experience of creating this was revelatory. I had that same exact word come to mind when I experienced this. I’ve always loved your music, I’ve always loved your voice, but getting to have a glimpse into you was just incredible. Throughout the course of looking back on your whole life, I was so intrigued to ask if the seed of where you create from you’ve realized is in the same space..

Baez: That covers a lot. I hadn’t thought about it that way. You’re covering a lot of time period ’cause it goes back 60-some years. And they’re just pockets of changes. I’m thinking when I was 10 years and somebody said, “Why don’t you write a song?” I’d never written. So, boom. That’s a turn right there. “Okay. Well, I’ll do that.” And I wrote songs until 35 years ago and then I quit. And then there there’s a whole [Bob] Dylan period, that’s not exactly introspective that one. There’s a period when I fell off the edge of a mountain somewhere and was really awash and in difficulties with the industry and with myself. And I think all of us, it has to be that what we create is going to come out of some very deep place. Plus some current stuff like, “Oh. I want to do this. I wanna do these paintings.” That’s very current. What’s really saying, I’m not sure. Where that really came from, I’m not sure. And I would say that about my entire career of art, drawing, poetry, everything. I’m not exactly sure.

Bava: In the middle of the film, there’s an interview where you say, “The social conscious was born in me before the voice.” As someone who really loves psychology and spirituality I wish the world used that word more and it was just more potent in our everyday language. I’m curious your relationship to that word and what you meant specifically by, “The social conscious was born in me before the voice.”

Baez: Yeah, that was my upbringing. And in spite of whatever problems I had, my family was Quaker and I was subjected to Quaker meeting, which of course I hated but I learned from it. I learned about silence, I learned about the whole philosophy of Quakerism where you don’t get to kill anybody. You can accept suffering. You just can’t inflict it on a personal level and social level. And of course that cuts wars out and that cuts nation states out because they’re almost antithesis of people. You can’t do both. You can’t protect your nation and stay. Even in the beloved Ukraine. It’s just tragic that you’re somehow putting your entire lives, your family, your friends, everybody to defend a piece of property. I get as caught up in it as anybody I know wishing they would win something. And I don’t even know what that means anymore. But if I were a strict Quaker and strictly adhered to traditional nonviolence, I would come out and condemn the war.

Bava: I’m such a believer in the space and the tools that are used. Like all of the spirits of the tools and the space go into the creations that happen. And I couldn’t help but notice that you always use Harbor Parlor guitars and it’s a specific type of guitar. And I was really lucky to go to the Martin Guitar Factory and get to play some of your old guitars. And I was freaking out because I absolutely adore you. But they’re just such interesting. This one was from 1886. How did you find these guitars?

Baez: I didn’t find either of those, somebody presented them to me, “Do you want to buy this?” That first one, which I still have and I used on the last album, cost me $250. That’s Martin. Somebody said, “Do you want to buy this?” Well, $250 for me, at that point, was still a lot of money. And I said, “Yeah.” And I got pretty much addicted to Martin. That’s been my home. And I don’t play the larger ones. I’m kind of limited in that I prefer just a certain size. The smaller ones. I’m not sure what my fingers would do on the other ones. And yeah. Then a concert, when I was really young, some man came backstage and he was look poking around looking at the guitar and how great the concert was. He said, “Can I see that guitar?” And I said, “Sure.” He said, “I believe I made that.” .

Baez: Your grounding in the film, the no shoes, I have to ask where did that come from and how long have you been doing that? Is it specifically for the grounding techniques?

Baez: I have to say, once again, I have no idea. But I’ve always gone barefoot from when I was little. I remember somebody asked me one time why I didn’t sing opera and I said something about I wanted my feet in the earth and I didn’t feel that with opera and apparently with folk tradition, I felt more at home and one step more at home. It’d be literally having my feet on the ground. And I still do.

Baltin: In Nashville you’re talking with Jack White. So wait, just as a fun question, who would be the coolest person to interview you about the film? ‘Cause Jack’s pretty cool.

Baez: I don’t really need a cool factor after that. Lana Del Rey is doing it in LA. So that’s pretty cool also.

Baltin: Talk about passing down the social activism to other artists and to the next generation and stuff, especially in this, well, being generous, tumultuous time.

Baez: How about f**ked up? Does that work? Works for me. Probably earlier in my life I would have dealt more directly with younger generation. At some point, I really adopted the feeling that you can’t tell anybody to do something. But at the same time, the richness in my life has come out of the social part of what I’ve done in my career. We did recently in one of the Q&As, some kids said, “Well, what do I do?” And I realized that if I thought about it for more than five minutes, I’d have 15 different things that if it called them, they could go and do. Because even though we don’t have a movement the way we did way back when, which everybody’s longing for, we have places you can go to make a difference. And whatever happens in this world, if we all fall into the abyss because it is what it is right now, or if we go on to create something beautiful, whatever that is, it’s going to be a fabric of what we are all doing right now. What I call little victories in the face of big defeats. That those are so important. You find whatever. What is gun control, the climate change, there are dozens of them. So, my answer really was to say, “Okay. I’m going to post some of these things in case you’re interested and then go out and get into good trouble.”

Baltin: How did you connect with Lana?

Baez: I am really delighted to be hooked up with Lana, for instance. I learned a lot from her about her people. And my granddaughter is one of them. She’s a singer, songwriter, a big Lana fan. And so when we get together, it’s a real injection of that other world. But on the other hand, how much do I listen to? I have to say that when I heard Pete Seeger say, when they asked him what he listened to, he said, “Well, the only time I really have to listen to music is when I take my grandchildren to the ice skating rink” [laughter].

Bava: Through the whole process of making this, were there core things of your learning of being a human being you and just being a soul?

Baez: Yeah. When I saw that, it makes me laugh and I love it, but it is a cartoon of me ripping along on a horse saying, “We’re gonna bring world peace,” or whatever it said. That tells me a lot about what I was like then. And there’s no way to remember that unless you see it. So I saw me earlier trying to please my parents. I saw the drawings I’d forgotten about. And obviously I saw the early childhood stuff that I remembered in a way, but not from that point of view. When I went into the storage unit, that’s the first time I’d been in there. I had no idea that my family kept absolutely everything [chuckle]. There it was in front of me. So, I said to the directors, “Take the keys and go in there and do whatever you have to do.”

Baltin: What do you hope people take from this film?

Baez: What I wanted to do, and I think we did, was pass on an honest legacy. And that took a lot of work, but there wasn’t any real other direction to go.