VIRGINIA BEACH, VIRGINIA – APRIL 27: Carter Lang performs onstage with SZA at SOMETHING IN THE WATER … [+]
Grammy-nominated producer/songwriter/musician Carter Lang is one of those behind the scenes musical savants whose name the general public might now know, but who is revered in the music industry. And even if you don’t know his name, you know his work.
He is best known for his work with SZA, but he co-wrote Post Malone’s smash “Sunflower” and has worked with Chance The Rapper, Doja Cat, Lil Nas X, Omar Apollo, Lykke Li and more. Like I said, you may not know his name, but if you have listened to pop or R&B music in the last decade you know his work.
As a producer and musician, Lang has a very unique perspective to share on collaborating and the nature of music. Sage Bava and I met with Lang at his Southern California home/studio recently to talk about the art of production and more.
Steve Baltin: So we were talking about Rick Rubin. I go to his house. He has this beautiful library, it’s like an old Ivy League library. And there’s one vinyl turntable in the center of the room set up for perfect sound. So he has everybody go in there to play it. And it’s funny though ’cause I’m in there and I’m hearing something from the background, that turns out to be the Chili Peppers recording in the studio downstairs. That’s Rick Rubin’s world.
Carter Lang: Yeah, I feel that. I don’t want to compare myself to him at all, but I like the idea of being able to have something going on while I’m doing something too. The idea of having this place too, it’s like I could live and I could just do my own thing and people could be working here, but then the rest of the studio took over the house, so I was like, “There’s no more place for me to live.” There’s no separation, but the new spot will have a little separation, which I’m excited about. It’ll still be part of the same building but, I’m excited. It’s going to actually be big enough to have bands and should be able to really do stuff.
Baltin: Who’s the dream band to have come in there?
Lang: It’s hard with bands. I feel like dream bands are, they’re not the same. Maybe if I was younger, it’d be like, “I wish Modest Mouse would be coming in the studio.” They’re still an amazing band, but everything is different. I think the dream band is when I actually really assemble with these, with a few friends of mine and make that thing happen. That’s the dream band. I’m trying to figure that out. And then we’re all getting each other ready through our experiences and I could see it. And, yeah, I could see it happen. Collective of sorts and other friends of mine are inspiring me to do that too. In Chicago or New York, people I’ve grown up with. That’s the reason why I want to build the studio.
Baltin: I was just having this conversation with my friend Anthony Green. After years of being in different bands he’s in this supergroup L.S. Dunes and he was telling me how great it is because they all have made a conscious decision to be in this band together and get along.
Lang: That’s the point I would love to be at too, with just all the people I work with. Especially all of us being just in our own producer worlds and our own trajectories and when we all can sync up and feel like we don’t have too much pressure to do a million things in LA, too much pressure to have to overachieve, we could just be together and make music. And I feel like I still am caught in between those worlds. I started off in a band, The O’My’s, in Chicago and, we were super close, and there’s also dysfunctionality, but it’s what fed into the music. And it was all part of real life s**t. And that made real memories and amazing family. It’s my family. I’ve always wanted to marry the world of like The O’My’s with what I’m doing. And it’s going to happen. ‘Cause naturally, a lot of the people that I’m working with are shifting and moving in this direction of diving in and figuring out how to make things that has soul in it. It’s not like soul music either, but soulful music.
Sage Bava: I was super excited to talk to you about this specifically. One of my favorite quotes is, “Music is the mediator between the sensible and sensual.” Beethoven. And you’re just so clearly a representative of nature meets technology.
Lang: Wow, that’s an amazing quote though.
Bava: The nature meets technology. How and where that was born for you, and how has that become your process?
Lang: I think it’s when the instrument starts to give you a visualization and starts to feel like you’re in this trance. A lot of times I’m playing stuff I don’t like to play from the place of theory, ’cause at a certain point I stopped my theory education. The fascination of sound just overtook me, possessed me. So I feel like when you really dive into the instrument you get into a meditative state, it starts to possess you, the smallest elements, every little microscopic element of the sound, you recognize what it is, and being able to control those things becomes almost like second nature when you can identify what it is in the first place. So I feel like over time just being able to identify how the sound is making me react and just having that seamlessly happen. And also, I guess that’s the way nature possesses you as well. You’re just bestowing upon something and it’s just all dancing around you. When I’m really into something, it feels like I’m in a happy place, that I’m in nature. And I guess, also a lot of sounds can be replicated in nature, in natural ways, so everything that we’re hearing is coming from something that could be made almost naturally. There are a lot of ways that we’re going to manipulate things, but at the root, it is a natural thing. I guess when it comes down to working with other people in that sense too, this sort of everyone coming together like when we’re talking about bands and stuff, everyone has an invisible string connecting them, some sort of positive tensions that are connecting you. And so, I guess, this is digressing a little bit, but I think that when you’re playing together, versus a few people playing, a few people listening, everyone’s playing together, they’re all connected. The listeners are connected too, but I think when you’re just speaking with music and you’re just talking to each other that way and there’s no one that’s in your way, there’s no one that’s just sitting there observing, they’re actually all reacting, they’re all talking, there’s something beautiful happening there, no one can really stop. Why would you? You have to keep the ship moving and keep the strings alive and stuff. But like we have now, as we’re speaking to each other and we’re strengthening those as we go and. I think that that happens in music. And even when you don’t have a bunch of people around, it’s just you and the instrument, it’s like how do you create that? That instant thing, like the way [John] Coltrane had with the saxophone which is instantaneous. I watch my friends and I listen to music and I see that, and I want that. So whenever I dive back in my instrument, I want to feel that natural connection.
Bava: I love the root of genius, it means to give birth in Latin, and it’s like you are connected to a genius. So this tether that you’re talking about with everyone, do you have rituals that you do? And the way that you live clearly, it just adheres to that flowing of genius.
Lang: I feel like it’s genius and it’s also kind of obsession with just capturing every sound and capturing a moment, and just harnessing the energy. It’s nice when I have a friend over too because it inspires me to get into a flow state with that person. Obviously I love talking with my friend and just hanging out with my friends and stuff, but I’m always like, “Let’s just get into a flow state and step up to an instrument.” It’s very meditative and then sometimes we have to purpose it. But I’m never like, “Hey, let’s make something for a purpose.” It’s usually, ” Let’s make stuff and then let’s see if we can purpose it. And maybe we can make something wild.” But that also creates a thing for me too, where I end up with a lot of material to go through. It’s like only a few times I really just sit there and like, “We’re just gonna go in on one idea,” or two ideas maybe. It’s like, “Let’s record for 300 minutes, see what we get.” And then I’ll be stuck to chop it all up. But it’s really crazy to see how it all develops and I love recording for long periods of time. Something really beautiful about it, especially when you stop before you’re too burnt out. When you’re just right at that point, you’re like, “We did great. I don’t know what we did there but I’m gonna go through it.” But it’s like a sonic representation of nature meets the instrument because it’s really just so human, we’re not even playing to a click or anything. That’s how I make music most of the time. But we all have an internal clock and when we’re playing with each other, our clocks sync up and that natural clock is sometimes cooler than always having something to keep you there. As soon as something’s just keeping me there, I’m like, “Damn. ” I get overwhelmed with options of what to do with that tempo, or what to do with that note.
Baltin: What’s a song you wish you had written and why?
Lang: Honestly, maybe it’s also just the sound of their voices and their harmonies, but with Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, just almost all their music. But as far as songs go, I’m into some things that I don’t know if I wish I’d written them, but I wish I was part of the making, I wish I was part of the making process. I wish I was in the room, on an instrument with them and stuff. With CSNY, but even with stuff like Modest Mouse and stuff, which is just such a random band that I really like. And just imagining myself in the room and just hearing the room in there and the presence of just the recording,
Bava: Speaking on flow state, what’s been the pinnacle experience for you in being in that place and then essentially blacking out? It’s been fascinating to talk to all these artists about how some of their favorite songs, they don’t remember writing at all.
Lang: For songs that have come out, one that I just remembered, ’cause I was discussing it the other day, but it was a song Omar Apollo’s “Invincible.” I was playing something on the NPC and I was just going off and I wasn’t even realizing I was doing, it was like, “Holy s**t. I got a whole song, I wanna write to this, let me just take this home.” That’s one example. But I think for me trying to think of examples of going into a flow state. Sometimes I have to make sure that I break up that flow state in order to get what I’m looking for when I was making a part. It’s like you get into a flow state, you have to put yourself and check and be like, “Hey, let me just make sure I add the right thing to the next thing,” so it then becomes like a technical thing, it starts off having to get yourself into a flow. But everything starts off being that for me, every song. And I don’t end up starting every song either, so it’s like my flow state could come from additions to a song. For example, on [SZA] “Good Days,” I had three weeks to myself at least to just add stuff to the song. We had started the song a long time ago. Two friends of mine started the beat, she wrote the song and then I’m finishing it off, and I had so much time to go in on it and I got to get into a flow state with every part, I would spend maybe 30 minutes playing some stuff and I just got to go through so much great information. I feel like it helps when you can have all those different things to decide from, and you’re just not thinking about, “Oh, I need to stop recording, or someone’s waiting for me to be done.” That’s nice too, getting an opportunity to work on tracks where you don’t feel like someone’s waiting for you to be done doing your thing. You could even wake up tomorrow and try it again. So I felt really motivated to work on that song, and to help finish that song, because I had all that time and I never get afforded that opportunity with other songs. Even when I’m adding to other stuff, I have to get into a flow state for just a second and take myself out. It would be like, “Oh, I need to add a solo to the end of this thing.” I’m not going to sit there and add a solo just because I know I have the time. I’m going to wait until I feel like I can get into a situation, even if I know that situation is going to have to be in a 30-minute, second time. Sometimes my favorite time to get in those states is right when I have to do something, I’m like, “Let me just get on a keyboard or let me just play something really quick before I go,” because I know that I’ll have to go and I’ll have to cut myself off. ‘Cause sometimes I’m afraid of never cutting myself off. [chuckle] And people that I record with definitely know I can go forever, and I definitely have people I play with too that also can play forever. But I enjoy that, I’m able to pull so many different things and I scan through it all and hear the different versions of that one little note. I like having all the options.
Baltin: What do you look for in people you work with? What draws you to someone?
Lang: I guess their curiosity in finding a sound. They don’t need to be great at playing. They don’t even need to play, but for them to want to be engaged and be curious on what’s going on. I don’t even need them to play an instrument. I’m happy to go around everything, figure it out. I love doing that. But, yeah, I think people that are really reactive. And not over reactive too. I feel like it’s just a balance and just having an understanding of being a cool person too, socially aware and got a sense of humor and not just a brick wall. These things that are just important for friends. You want a friend that reacts, you want a friend. So I’m just looking for people that I would be friends with, to be around me when I’m making music. That’s mostly it.